B5 and Hairloss: Biotin Update

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Hewk	Re: Saw palmetto	#21	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/27/04 07:28:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	@Bluenun, When did you start taking Zinc etc? You probably should take a B-complex. Maybe it takes time before the increased Acne from Saw Palmetto will fade away. More info about that can be found at www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/ Your doctor should take some tests, like blood pressure, renal function, thyroid, blood composition levels, Nitric Oxide levels. So at the moment, B5 might indirectly cause hairloss by: * Liver problems * Kidney problems (might give high blood pressure) * Hormone misbalance (maybe DHT) * Vitamin Deficiency (for example Biotin) * Mineral Deficiency (for example Zinc) * Low Nitric Oxide (NO) levels (might give erectile problems) * Thyroid problems. * Decreased pore size, which is thinning hair. (Not likely.)
Unregistered(d)	...	#22	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/27/04 08:34:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	@Bluenun Did you experience any hair loss while taking Vitamin B5? How old are you? Thanks!
bluenun	Saw Palmetto	#23	[-]
Posts: 42 (01/27/04 10:52:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hewk, thanks for the response. Your knowledge is much appreciated. Thanks for the link. I started taking zinc & b6 & borage seed oil & copper on December 20th 03, taken every day not missed a day. Flaxseed oil 5ml from Jan 1st 04. Was on 10g B5 split into 4 doses from Nov 13th 03 until 9th Jan 04. Did not feel it was helping and reduced to 2.g a day. Wanted to wait a week (from stopping b5) before starting Saw Palmetto. Started 16th Jan 04 1x 320mg (standardised to 85-95% Fatty Acid & Sterols). I felt the Zinc and B6 had helped a bit but since starting the saw Palmetto I seem to be having an aggravation? I contacted the guy I bought them off who was very helpful and he was not aware of this happening before. But most the people he sells to buy it for hairloss. Like I said my libido seems to be higher but skin worse. He suggested I stop taking the Saw Palmetto and see if the acne subsides but I preferred to carry on taking it to see if things calmed down. The Dr was helpful even though she could not prescribe Propecia for me she wouldbe happy to carry on seeing me if I decided to buy them myself online. She did say my acne was mild. Do you think I should stop taking B5 altogether? Are the other supplements I am taking risky at all? Thanks Artlan I am 36 years old (had spots since 14) and my hair looks a bit thinner than it used to, I have receded a tiny bit at the front but think I will leave it and not try Propecia and Minoxidil. To be honest I don't know whether the B5 caused the hair thinning or maybe it is just my age, cannot honestly say. Hearing that b5 can cause baldness certainly made me look at my hair closer.
Hewk	Re: Saw Palmetto	#24	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/27/04 11:52:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	@Bluenun, It's hard to say if you should quit using B5, if your not sure if it caused your hairloss. But if 10gr B5 is not working for you, than I would quit using it. The question is also how long you should try B5 before it will work. I don't know the answer on that. www.b5supplements says something like 3 months. Also look at the type of hairloss. For example a normal Male Pattern Baldness norwood pattern, of diffuse on the top or diffuse even on the sides. The last one isn't normal hairloss, to than it's probably not just age. Too much zinc can also cause hairloss. But I don't know at which dose it's "too much". Also note that a high dose of zinc can cause copper deficiency and increases the risk of prostate cancer by something like 2 times or more.
Unregistered(d)	hairloss	#25	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/27/04 12:17:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I experienced a LOT of hairloss with b5 after about 4 months on it. b5 totally decreased the oil, but it made my hair more brittle and my skin looked lifeless. For a long time i tried to convince myself that I was imagining things. I find it interesting that EVERYONE on the internet that has used b5 without hairloss claims that there is NO possible way that b5 could be responsible. Guess they don't want their bubble burst or something. There were times when I'd run my hand through my hair 20 times in a row, and with each pass, I'd take out 3-4 hairs. Do the math. I'm 24 years old by the way, and it was a diffuse loss, not a male pattern balding. I tried taking biotin with b5 together, but that didnt really work out either. The hairloss stopped as soon as i stopped taking b5. I also get the same reaction to accutane these days. seems that everything that is effective in reducing acne for me also reduces hair. currently, I'm taking saw palmetto, but I just started and can't comment on it again. I'd say that my hair is about 25%-30% thinner than it was 2 years ago.
dpark419	we'll figure this out	#26	[-]
Posts: 107 (01/27/04 14:12:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Misfit et al., guys, it seems like there's definately a pattern here. The one thing that's keeping me optimistic is that I'm not the only one with this problem. The more people we find with the same problem the easier it will be to find a solution. I went to the doctor yesterday and got some blood tests done. She wanted to screen for thyroid problems and do a complete blood count to make sure I wasn't anemic. Those are two things that can cause hairloss apparently. The anemia can be due to a deficiency in B12 and folic acid, two B vitamins that could have been neglected due to the high doses of B5. There's also the possibility of B5 messing with DHT and our testosterone levels. I've read that people who experienced hairloss due to B5 regained their hair with DHT blockers like Propecia and Avodart. Artlan has cited erectile problems. Personally, I don't want to go on another prescription drug, especially one that might alter my hormones. I'd much rather get monitored by a doctor and take Saw Palmetto which has been known, but not proven, to produce milder effects of DHT blockers. At this point, I just want my hair back to normal. If saw palmetto makes be break out, so be it. I've learned a valuable lesson through this 2 year bump in the road: stay as natural as possible. If you find others with the same problem send em here. We'll figure this out.
Hewk	Re: we'll figure this out	#27	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/27/04 14:28:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I also have Saw Palmetto here, but I haven't used it yet and aren't planning to use it soon. 160mg Standardized 85-95% Male Pattern Baldness: www.hairlosshelp.com/hair...charts.cfm
Unregistered(d)	Glad this thread is picking up some steam....	#28	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/27/04 19:16:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hey Guys! I am glad that we have new posters on this thread, perhaps with out join efforts we'll find a cure for this horrible dillema. As for DPARK419, I am glad that you went to a doctor, I'll be following that route as well as soon as I am done with school. I had a couple of questions for you: 1) Is your doc going to check your dht/hormone levels? 2) is your doc going to check for any kidney/liver/enzymes problems? 3) when are the results due back? Thanks again!
dpark419	cbc and thyroid check	#29	[-]
Posts: 107 (01/27/04 20:36:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	artlan, i just got a complete blood count and a thyroid stimulating hormone test. Do they have a test for DHT? If i want to get that I will definately need to see a specialist, probably a urologist or an endocrinologist. We'll see.
Unregistered(d)	thanks dpark419	#30	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/27/04 22:51:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for updating me on your situation. What symptoms did you describe to your doctor? what did he/she said? When are the results expected back? I'll go to a doctor as well and we'll compare out blood tests hopefully that way we can see if there's anything that stands out. Perhaps it might be a good idea to ask your doctor to refer you to an endocrinologist as they specialize with hormones. Good luck and keep us posted
bluenun	dht	#31	[-]
Posts: 42 (01/28/04 04:13:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As for whether there is a test for DHT I do not know. To be hones my Dr did not know what DHT was I could have had a test for liver enzymes but I have decided not to take Propecia so wont bother. For interest my hair looks more like number 2 on that chart so it is just starting to recede at the front. I am 36 so it could be age? Hewk Can you tell me where you got the Saw Palmetto 160mg Standardized 85-95% please. My 90 caps od 320mg cost 24:99, quite expensive but good quality.
Hewk	Re: dht	#32	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/28/04 10:23:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Your doctor should update his knowledge Everybody who knows something about hairloss, should have heard about DHT. Yes, it could be age. The hairthinning what some B5 users experience is probably usually diffuse thinning. Those Norwood patterns are not really diffuse. I got SP also from www.vitaglo.com (because I was buying B5 there). Also from the brand NOW.
ROCKNROLLNOW	???	#33	[-]
Posts: 285 (01/28/04 15:07:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Are you saying that most balding men can stop hair loss with a simple supplement ??
Hewk	Re: ???	#34	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/28/04 15:17:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That depends on the type of hairloss. I don't know if they can stop it 100%, but it can be decreased. When it's decreased a lot, it will look like that person has more hair than before, because hair might get thicker and longer. Usually they say, the more supplements you use, the better for the hairs.
Unregistered(d)	Thanks for all the info....	#35	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/28/04 23:25:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There has been a lot of good information in this thread...I am going to try and analyze it and propose it to my doctor to see what he says. Meanwhile, I am anoxiously awaiting DPARK419's blood test restult, perhaps we could find a solution there. Anyone else experienced hair loss due to Vitamin B5?
bluenun	biotin	#36	[-]
Posts: 42 (01/30/04 05:37:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would appreciate some help please. I went to buy a b50-complex today which contained Biotin but it also included 50 mg of b6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride) which I understand can make acne worse. Currently I am taking 25mg of b6 (P-5-P). What should I do? Also it contains 100mg Niacinamide. Niacin induces a flush for me, is the Niacinamide safe with regards to flushing?
pure(d)	complete	#37	[-]
Posts: 2590 (01/30/04 08:36:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Holland & Barrett sell a B-complex supplement called "Complete B". I use it and really like it. I just bought 250 tablets of this for 5.84 pounds (it's currently on sale). It contains a good amount of choline which works with B5, also some biotin and a good amount of folic acid. But the thing I like most about it is that it only has small amounts of the other B vitamins. Personally I don't need 50mg or 100mg of all the B vitamins... a few mg are enough. Here's a list of what Complete B contains per tablet: B1...............................5mg B2...............................7.5mg B3 (as niacinamide).........12.5mg B5.................................50mg B6................................5mg B12..............................12.5mcg Folic acid.......................200mcg Biotin............................50mcg PABA.............................25mg Choline...........................125mg Inositol...........................125mg Taking one or two tablets of this B-complex supplement might work just as well as regular B-50s. You don't necessarily need a LOT of B vitamins at once - after all we probably take a B-complex supplement just to prevent a deficiency in the other B vitamins while megadosing on B5. Plus you won't need to worry about getting too much B6 when you're also taking a B6 supplement. Niacinamide does not give skin flushing like niacin does. These two forms of vitamin B3 give some different benefits too. For example niacin improves circulation and can help fight bad cholesterol whereas niacinamide doesn't. There is another form of B3 called inositol hexaniacinate which is less potent than niacin but gives similar benefits without the annoying flushing
Unregistered(d)	........	#38	[-]
Posts: 0 (01/30/04 10:38:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am currently taking a B-50 Complex from NOW. I am satisfied with it, and it is cheaper than other brands. Here's the link: www.nowfoods.com/?action=...em_id=2957 Look for the "Nutrition Info" at the botton.
Hewk	Re: complete	#39	[-]
Posts: 141 (01/30/04 10:55:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know if Pyridoxine can make acne worse. It might raise DHT, but if correct, some studies say the opposite. How B-complex you need, depends on how much B5 you take and it differs from person to person. I have never seen any studies which tell the values of how much B-complex you need when taking B5. So how much you need is probably a bit guessing and trying. Acnemiracle recommended to take a B50-complex. A user on this forum told that he had sideeffects with B5 and a B50-complex and it disappeared with a B100-complex instead of a B50-complex. Ofcourse their might be other factors which he didn't counted, like maybe Time. So his results maybe does not give a correct answer. I took a normal multivitamin when I started with B5, and I have experienced hairthinning while using it. (Probably directly/indirectly from B5.) I have taken a B100-complex for some months. It contains: B1............100mg B2............100mg B3............100mg B5............100mg B6............25mg B12...........100mcg Folic Acid....500mcg Biotin........100mcg Choline.......100mg Inositol......100mg Paba..........100mg
bluenun	.	#40	[-]
Posts: 42 (01/30/04 12:44:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wow, thanks for all the quality information guys. I am thinking it might be a good idea to take 1 Complete B from H&B in the morning and one at night. That way I will be getting similar amounts of Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline, Inositol, and Paba as I would taking that b100 complex you listed Hewk. I take 25mg p-5-p anyway and hopefully I will be getting enough B1, B2 and B3. I have reduced my B5 to 1.5g a day now.

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